@Montana State with Holocaust survivor Eva Schloss

Anne Cantrell

MSU News Service

Editor's note: @Montana State is a periodic series of Q&A-style interviews featuring notable visitors to the university. This is the latest installment. Previous Q&As in the series may be found online at http://montana.edu/news/at_msu.html .

BOZEMAN - Eva Schloss was born Eva Geiringer in 1929 in Vienna, Austria, to a middle-class Jewish family. She recalls a happy childhood with her mother, Elfriede, father, Erich, and older brother, Heinz. But shortly after the annexation of Austria by Germany in 1938 - before she was even 10 years old - Schloss and her family immigrated to Belgium and then to the Netherlands, where they lived in the same Amsterdam apartment block as Anne Frank. After the Germans invaded Holland in 1942, Schloss and her family - like Anne Frank and her family - went into hiding to avoid the Nazi effort to capture the Jews of Amsterdam.

Over a period of about two years, Schloss' family moved approximately seven times, she said, sheltered by resistance volunteers. But in 1944, Schloss's family was betrayed, captured by the Nazis and transported to the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death camp. Her father and brother did not survive, but she and her mother were freed by Russian soldiers in 1945.

After the war, Schloss and her mother returned to Amsterdam. In 1951, Schloss moved to London, where she later married and raised three daughters. In 1953, Schloss's mother married Otto Frank, Anne Frank's father.

Schloss will visit Montana State University at 7 p.m. Sunday, Nov. 3, to participate in a Q&A session to be held as part of "A Historic Evening with Eva Schloss" in MSU's Strand Union Building Ballrooms. Also participating in the Q&A will be Rabbi Chaim Bruk, executive director of Chabad Lubavitch of Montana. MSU President Waded Cruzado will lead the session; head sponsors are the MSU Leadership Institute and Chabad Lubavitch of Montana. Tickets, which are $5 for students and $18 for the public, are on sale at the Bobcat Ticket Office, TicketsWest outlets and http://www.ticketswest.com .

Before her visit, Schloss spoke on the phone with MSU News from her home in London. The interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

MSU News: In 1942, you and your family went into hiding to avoid the Nazi effort to capture Jewish people in Amsterdam. What do you remember about the days while you were in hiding? How frequently did

you move?

Schloss: A lot of young people - 10,000 young people - got a call-up notice to be sent to (work in German camps). So this is when my parents and Anne Frank's parents, as well as many, many others decided to go into hiding because they wouldn't send their children (to German camps). My brother was 16 at the time and so was Anne (Frank)'s sister, Margot.

We moved about seven times in two years. ... At night (the Nazis) came with trucks, knocked on doors (and) people had to open (them). They didn't have to have a police search notice. ... In all the hiding places, there were all these people from the resistance (who) helped people. ... Some were builders or carpenters or handymen. And they made (a) hiding place in their apartment, sometimes under the floorboards. ... We hid as soon as we heard the knock on the door, usually at night, hoping they wouldn't find us. It was very nerve-wracking, as you can imagine, and we didn't dare to sleep. And then ... every night there was a chance (the Nazis) would come, so (the owner of the apartment) didn't dare to sleep. (The owners were) nervous, so sometimes after three months, sometimes after six months, they said, "We can't take this tension. You have to move to a different hiding place."

What do you remember about when you were captured?

That I remember very, very clearly because it happened on my 15th birthday. And, obviously, we were betrayed. We were betrayed by a Dutch nurse who obviously worked for the Nazis. ... In 1944, they gave her the reward of five guilders per head. So if you betrayed four people, you got 20 guilders. And at the time, it was quite a bit of money. You could live on that for perhaps two weeks. ... At the time I had just turned 15, and I really thought it would be the end of my life. You can imagine how scary it was.

What do you want today's young people to know about your time (at Auschwitz)?

Germans are supposed to be the most educated people in Europe, (but during the Holocaust) they (could) sit around their conference table and decide they (wanted) to get rid of millions of people. (They decided) how is the cheapest, the best way, the quickest way to do it without using a gun and a bullet. And they came up with gassing people. And this is something ... so inhumane, so terrible. People have to realize that educated people can do unbelievable, cruel, terrible things and be prejudiced against certain kinds of people. It was not only Jews: It was Poles, it was Jehovah's Witnesses, it was gay people, it was black people. All kinds of people they judged were not as sophisticated as the Germans, and they (didn't) want them around.

In some of the interviews that you've given, you've talked about "never again" - that's what the world said after the Holocaust - but you've also pointed out that refugees have been turned away from many places - the Vietnamese boat people, in African genocides, and I suppose you mean today also? Are you afraid that we have forgotten the lessons of the Holocaust?

I don't think forgotten, but not learned. Because I think millions of people know what has happened. But, unfortunately, people haven't really learned the lesson. And again, the same discriminations, the same hatred is again working. That is really a tragedy that we don't seem to learn. There is a saying, "History repeats itself." It seems to be true, but there is also another saying, "You should learn from history." But, obviously, we haven't yet come to this stage. We still make the same mistakes. We still are having what you have in America, with people from Mexico and from other southern countries who are really afraid for their lives because of drug dealers and things like that. They really are strong people who really want to try to make a better life in another country. And, again, we turn people down.

You have said that for 40 years, you didn't speak about your experiences in the Holocaust. But then you did start speaking publicly. Why did you start speaking out and did you find it a relief personally?

When I came back, I wanted to speak. I was full of the terrible experience and I wanted to share it with people. But people everywhere had suffered, and they said, "Well, we know it was terrible, we have learned our lesson, never again Auschwitz, let's move on."

So, Holocaust survivors - not just me - everybody suppressed it, and then kind of lived with it. And then, after 20 years, when people started to (ask) questions here and there, we were not ready. We had pushed it away, but we were living with it. I saw it all very (clearly) in front of me all the time. But I was just not ready to dig it out again and tell people.

But, in 1986, the first Anne Frank exhibition (came) to London from Holland. And, of course, I was invited. And there were about six people (who spoke). ... And then the organizer said, "Eva, come and sit with us at this head table."

So I just sat there, listening and feeling a little bit uneasy to be the center of attention. And then when everybody had spoken, he said, "Now Eva, we want (you) to say something."

I was in shock. I (had) never, ever spoken about (the Holocaust), not even to my own family. And suddenly I was in front of a crowd of perhaps 200-300 people, and they wanted to hear what I had gone through. And it was really, really difficult. But I just got up and looked at the people, quite scared, and then suddenly the gates broke open and I couldn't stop.

... Afterwards (audience members) came near me and asked more questions. And so I realized people are interested and really want to learn now. And that is how I started to speak all over the place. I was probably relieved, because before at night, I always had nightmares. I lived through (the Holocaust) again, certain pieces of terrible things. But once I could speak about it, I could sleep.

You've talked about blaming the Holocaust on the Nazis, but also on German people who were too cowardly to speak up and stand up to them. You've also talked about the responsibility of the rest of the world, which turned its back on refugees (from Nazi Germany). Do you see all three of these different kinds of peoples being responsible for the Holocaust?

Not the people now, because they are responsible for what is happening now in the world. But ... the bystanders (during the Holocaust who) didn't want to help and just said, "Well, this is how it is now," and they didn't care? Yeah, of course they are responsible as well. This is one of the things (to) teach to young people, (that) you must take an interest in what goes on around you and if you see injustice being done ... you can speak up. We have a voice. We have democracy, and we should have the courage to speak up if we see injustice.

What do you remember about Anne Frank?

We were both 11 years old when we met. ... Anne came to Holland when she was 4 years old, so she was much freer than I was. She was a big chatterbox. She had already (written) little stories. ... She was already interested in boys and had boyfriends. And I had an older brother, so boys were no mystery to me. But we became friends. You live in (an) apartment, (where) you have no yards to play in, so all the children came out in the street (and) played together. ... It was very nice. I knew her for two years ... and then in '42, we went into hiding. And then I never, ever saw her again.

You lost your father and brother in the Holocaust. How did you move forward with your life after they died?

I turned 16 and I got a letter from the Red Cross, (a) very informal (letter), that my father and brother had died several days before the American Army came to liberate the camp that they were in. And I was shattered. Because I really (thought) ... life would get back to how it used to be again. I thought we would go back to live in Austria. Because I loved the country. But then I realized it (would) never, ever happen. I had little family (left). My mother wrote to her mother, who was in England, that she (had) to be a mother, a brother, a father for me. And she (had) lost her son and her husband, and she (had) to cope herself, cope with her own sorrow. And there she had this child who was completely lost. So it was really a very, very hard time for both of us and for families like Otto Frank who had lost everybody. He also came to our house and said, "The only thing I possess is the clothes I have on my body. I have nothing anymore."

But ... time heals. ... I went to England, met my husband and got married, and (had) my first daughter. That was really a miracle, and I realized life goes on. Eventually. But it took a long, long time to sort of be able to accept what had happened. Not so much my own suffering, but the loss of your family. ... That is something you'll never forget or forgive.

How did you find the strength to make it through your time (at Auschwitz)?

I had a very, very happy life as a child, and I really, I didn't want to die. So I never, ever gave up hope. As soon as you say, "This is too horrible. I can't carry on," within a few days you'll be dead. Only through extremely, extremely strong willpower did you have a chance. I was lucky. I wouldn't have made it much longer. If the Russians wouldn't have come, I would have died within a few days. You can survive a certain time, but not forever.

You have spoken to more than 1,000 audiences about your experiences. What do you want people to really take away from your story after they hear it?

That we are actually very lucky. We have (been) given a wonderful Earth with a lot of riches. It's not necessary to have any beggars and poor people or homeless people. We have to share what has been given to us. ... We are all given our lives by God. We are all equals. The color of your skin, or the religion you follow, is not a reason to be hated or prejudiced against. Especially religion. Religion has caused so much war, so much prejudice, so much hatred. It is a personal thing who you worship. And (religion is) uplifting. It's a wonderful thing, and it's nobody's business if you believe something else from your neighbors or somebody. There's no reason to have prejudice against people who think a little differently. And this is important that we stop having prejudice and to treat everybody as equals.